Barry Cooper Says Consent to Searches

Flex Your Rights has eagerly anticipated Barry Cooper's new video Never Get Busted Again: Vol.1 Traffic Stops, which finally arrived yesterday. After reviewing Cooper's DVD, we're disappointed to report that Never Get Busted badly misses the mark regarding consent searches.

We hope the following will not be interpreted as a rebuke of Cooper or his video, much of which we enjoyed. Still, we find it necessary to comment at length on his surprising advice.

Unfortunately, Cooper recommends consenting to searches, which is the worst imaginable strategy for handling a police encounter. His message flatly contradicts the consensus judgment of civil libertarians, and encourages the very behavior Flex Your Rights and many others have been struggling to abate. Hopefully Barry Cooper can be persuaded to reconsider his recommendation that citizens waive their constitutional rights. He should be excited to learn that refusing consent is a viable and prudent option for his audience.

Here is a transcript of Cooper's section on consent searches, interrupted by our detailed reactions:
You've heard your entire life: Refuse consent. Refuse consent. Refuse consent. I don't recommend that. You're free to do whatever you want, but I recommend quite the opposite.

If you've hidden your stash in a hard to find location -- like taught earlier in this DVD -- give the officer permission to search if he asks. Here's why: One hundred times out of one hundred, when somebody refused consent to search to me, they always had something in their vehicle they did not want me to find. It was usually drugs. Sometimes it might be a Playboy magazine or something of that nature. But there was always something they did not want me to see. Law enforcement officers know this.

There's no doubt that refusing consent will often heighten an officer's suspicions. But the officer was suspicious before asking for consent to search. (That’s precisely why he asked!) The argument that consenting will deflect suspicion cannot be sustained. Any officer, including Cooper elsewhere in the video, will confirm that almost everyone consents whether or not they're hiding something.

Cooper's claim that he searched everyone who refused suggests that he repeatedly violated constitutional prohibitions against unreasonable detentions and searches without probable cause. Such misconduct remains common, but it’s not exactly the norm.

Since Cooper's retirement, lawsuits over racial profiling have resulted in settlements limiting suspicionless consent searches in some states and increasing documentation and accountability when such searches occur. Much work remains to be done in this area, but many police departments are more respectful of constitutional rights than Cooper’s notorious Permian Basin Drug Task Force was.

Even though you have the constitutional right to refuse consent -- when you refuse it raises a huge red flag. You could almost call it a huge reasonable suspicion.

Refusing a search can never be called reasonable suspicion. A responsible discussion of a citizen's constitutional rights during police encounters must emphasize that exercising your rights can never be held against you as evidence of wrong-doing.

Though it's not his intention, we fear that Cooper's use of the term "reasonable suspicion" in this context could give many viewers the false impression that their refusal of consent can be used against them in court.

Upon refusing consent, that officer automatically knows now you have something to hide. If you simply say "Go ahead and search my car," he's probably going to make a quick cursory search, and then you'll be on your way.

Again, consent is given so routinely that it cannot contribute to a presumption of innocence. Cooper's terrific traffic stop footage is itself a perfect demonstration of this. It's risky to assume that a consent search will be brief or that officers will overlook Cooper's recommended hiding places, which are now an open secret.

If you refuse consent, he can do a weapons pat-down search of your vehicle without your permission, and upon patting the interior of the vehicle down for weapons, if he finds a marijuana seed or a marijuana pipe or something of that nature or if he smells marijuana, then he's going to search your car without your permission.

Refusing consent does not, by itself, give police the authority to do anything. If police have reasonable suspicion to believe you're armed (e.g. furtive movements, high crime area, etc.) they may perform a Terry frisk of your person. This pat-down does not include your vehicle, nor are police authorized to do this based on your refusal to consent. A weapons search of your vehicle's passenger compartment is only authorized in the course of a probable cause arrest.

If you refuse consent to search, he's liable to get a narcotics detector dog to walk around the outside of your vehicle. If that dog fails to alert -- as you learned in the K-9 section -- he could quite possibly cause that dog to false alert. Then you have no choice.

Drug sniffing dogs are frequently used in this situation, but police cannot detain you in order to bring a dog to the scene unless they have reasonable suspicion (which again cannot be triggered by your refusal to consent). If police threaten to bring in a dog, simply ask if you're free to go. If you're denied permission to leave, everything else that happens is subject to 4th Amendment analysis in court.

Barry Cooper offers some interesting discussion of the misuse of drug dogs elsewhere in the video. Unfortunately, he misses the vital point that refusing a search and dismissing yourself from the encounter is the best strategy. His advice to consent is merely a shorter path to the undesirable outcome his audience is trying to avoid in the first place.

He will also invite numerous other police officers at the scene. The call goes out on the radio, I've heard it a hundred times: "I have a refusal. I have a refusal." And police come from everywhere to figure out how to get in that car, and then they begin a real detailed search.

But any evidence they discover during this "real detailed search" will be inadmissible unless they have reasonable suspicion for the detention and probable cause for the search. If you consent, officers will also come to the scene to assist with the search. The only difference is that by consenting, you've volunteered to be investigated, thereby eliminating any chance you have of challenging it later in court.

That's the most important point of all: Consenting to a search automatically makes the search legal. And if any contraband is found, you can’t suppress the evidence. Waiving your 4th Amendment rights places you at the mercy of the criminal justice system and everything it has to offer. Ironically, Cooper encourages defendants to hire an attorney with trial experience and refuse plea bargains, yet anyone who consented to the search will have no choice but plead out or become an informant.

The failure to explain that consent automatically legalizes the search is a confounding omission given his target audience of marijuana users. Cooper praises 4th Amendment rights in the introduction, but later encourages citizens to voluntarily waive these rights when they matter most.

Civil libertarians have a vital interest in combating the harmful myth that police can do whatever they want. Such perceptions stifle discussion of police accountability and foster a reluctant tolerance of coercive police practices. Fortunately, lawsuits from people who know their rights have been a potent catalyst for reform. A citizenry that is vigilant and unyielding in its defense of constitutional protections is more likely to achieve justice than one which buries its secrets beneath the dashboard while waiving the right to privacy.

With this in mind, we encourage Barry Cooper to promptly revisit the issue of consent searches. It's a brief portion of the video, though it will become longer upon correction. In the meantime, he should consult defense attorneys and report his findings to those who've already purchased the DVD.

With minimal effort, Cooper can dramatically increase the value of his efforts and redeem this otherwise fascinating video.

Thanks!

I appreciate the heads up about this video. I'm sure Cooper means well and is only giving his honest opinion about how to exploit police tactics and strategies.

Unfortunately, exploiting procedures is not the same as knowing and exercising one's rights - and the latter is far more effective against intrusive and aggressive police in the long run. If everybody put up a maximum, informed defense against every Drug War charge, the court system and prosecutors would be overwhelmed and out of cash.

This Might Help With The Consent Issue

This is an excerpt from a popular review of my DVD found at windypundit.com. The following quote is in reference to the 3rd chapter of my video. Mark Draughn writes:

"This chapter also has what's probably the most controversial piece of advice: Don't refuse the officer's request to search your car. That goes against everything I've ever read. However, on reflection, Cooper's argument isn't totally insane: As former defense attorney Ken Lammers has pointed out many times on his blog, you don't really have any effective Fourth Amendment protection against a search anyway when you're in your car.

By refusing to let a cop search your car, you've all but told him that you have something to hide. You could quickly find yourself surrounded by six cops and a drug-sniffing dog, all willing to spend as much time as it takes to find a reason to search your car without your permission. According to Cooper, you're better off hiding the drugs really well and letting the cop make a quick but unsuccessful search. That makes a kind of crazy sense, but I know people who've refused a search and the cop just went away.

The fourth chapter consists of Cooper driving around with a cameraman in his car, profiling the cars on the road. As a narcotics officer, he would be trying to pick cars to pull over that would give him an above-average chance of finding drugs in the car.

(This is one of my favorite parts of the DVD because it's full of interesting little details about how cops think..."

I produced a DVD that shouts aloud what cops think in secret not what people have been told for years by attorneys and good activists. The info told for years is accurate just as my DVD is accurate if viewers understand the story is being told through the lens of a cop.

So far, thousands of copies sold, only four returns on my guarantee and they were all cops except one.

It's good information.

Regards,

Barry

Another FAIR review of the DVD

Just thought I would drop another recent review of my DVD in this thread since some on this thread are being a bit bias. Smiles.

Chris at www.meduser.ca wrote:

"I am sure many of you have been wondering what this DVD was all about, and whether it was above board and legit. I can say from my own perspective on this video, that this fellow has clearly been involved with, and subsequently gotten frustrated with being a police official, and that he offers a fresh view, and some wonderful insights into protecting yourself from unnecessary persecution and prosecution. Personally, I feel that Mr Cooper comes across as being sincere, and someone who genuinely wants to give something back, and help some folks from being arrested unnecessarily. All in all I believe this information could be valuable to folks who risk being harassed by law enforcement over cannabis, and it becomes doubly valuable to the many folks like ourselves here at meduser.ca, who are very ill and even terminal, and can do without the stigma, the stress and the threat to our physical well being, that looms over us as medical cannabis user’s."

The entire review can be seen at www.meduser.ca.

Thanks. I look forward to releasing my second DVD at the end to the summer.

Barry

Does refusal really work?

Giving consent to a search bothered me too. A lot. However, my impression is that recent Supreme Court decisions have made it fairly easy for police to find a legal reason to search a car. Does refusing a search work in real life?

My Motives Can Be Seen By Those Who View the DVD

This is an excerpt from a popular review posted by windypundit.com after viewing my DVD. Mark Draughn writes:

"If you sometimes travel by car with small amounts of marijuana—a few joints, say—then this video will probably help you avoid getting busted.

In my first post about this video, when it was just buzz on the Internet, I said I thought Cooper was a hustler looking for a quick buck, and that I'd apologize if I was wrong. I think I have to apologize a bit.

Barry Cooper may be trying to make a quick buck, but the word "hustler" carries a connotation of dishonesty that was unwarranted. Sorry Barry. Your DVD is what you said it would be."

Barry Writes:

I produced a DVD that shouts aloud what cops think in secret not what people have been told for years by attorneys and good activists. The info told for years is accurate just as my DVD is accurate if viewers understand the story is being told through the lens of a cop.

So far, thousands of copies sold, only four returns on my guarantee and they were all cops except one. Mark was skeptical until he WATCHED the DVD.

It's good information.

Regards,

Barry

Refusing Consent

I've successfully refused consent on now 24 consecutive traffic stops over 13 years.

I was pulled over last Sunday, (some idiot, me, neglected to rewnew his drivers license,) by an officer who'd seen me earlier in the evening in my "Notice to Law Enforcement Officers: I do not consent to a search..." t-shirt. Brought the dog which somehow failed to indicate. He didn't even bother seeking permission after that.

does refusal really work?

It has been my personal experience that refusal really does work.
I have been the subject of countless stops and I am always asked "may we search your car?" I heve never given consent and in the end I am always allowed,reluctantly,to leave. perserveriance is the key! Hold on to your constitutional rights my fellow brothers and sisters. Keep the faith and never forget that this is a war!

Refusal

An unconditional - YES!

Never Consent To a Search of Your Vehicle or Home

Try it, you'll like it.

(smile)

STEVE'S 60 second DVD on HOW TO NOT GET BUSTED IN YOUR CAR

1) Keep your car properly tagged and lights working etc

2) Drive to your supplier and pick up your product

3) Put the product into your trunk and out of sight.

4) Drive directly home

5) Remove your product and carry it into your house.

Two cents plus a nickel to your nearest DPR org...Cash only.
======
Follow the counsel of FlexYourRights on this one, imho as a 31 year Consumer of the Cannabis and prior to 1994, plenty o' other stuff I wouldn't want found on my person or in my car by a cop.

To the "60 second advice," I'

To the "60 second advice," I'd add this one:

6) If possible, dress nicely. In general, the more you look like Ward Cleaver on his way to or from work, the more the cop is apt to assume that you're "one of the good people" and act accordingly. In particular, I was involved in one accident when I was 24, and looked quite a bit younger. I was dressed in a tee-shirt and ratty blue jeans; the other driver was a distinguished looking man in his 50s, dressed in a suit. The other driver was completely at fault (he had accidentally ran a red light) -- and fortunately for me, he admitted this at the scene. (From what he said to me later, I think he was as outraged by the cop's conduct as I was.) I say that this was fortunate because the cop who handled the accident, upon his arrival, took one look at the two of us and made up his mind; his first action was to point to me and ask the other driver, "what happened, was he [me] speeding, or did he run the light, or what?" ... and continued to ask such questions or make statements to that effect until the other driver explicitly told him, "you've got it wrong, *I* caused the accident, not him."

Based on that and my other encounters with cops over the years, I'm thoroughly convinced that cops rely upon first impressions much more than they'll admit; perhaps much more than they even realize. In my experience, being dressed like you're on your way to a rock concert gets you the "what the hell are you up to, punk" treatment; being dressed like you're on your way to a corporate board meeting gets you the "sorry to bother you, sir" treatment. In other words, it's the difference between (in the cop's mind, not in any legal sense) the presumption of guilt and the presumption of innocence.

To the 60 sec advice

Most def do I agree!! But also remember that if u do ever get "caught" for what ever stupid reason. When u go to court also dress to the 9s. Take out piercings and yes I know thats a bite in the ass and not fare and yes they and the pink or blue hair you have shouldn't matter. But we all know if we have a little common sense. That a lot of people "ie law enforcment, and judges" do read the book by the cover. But I have learned that 9 out of 10 times that if u show respect even if u don't want to or mean it "be a really good actor here" that most judges will be a lot more lenient "baring the assholes that there is just no getting round.Because they just live to nail someone, anyone to the wall". Those of course are our curse. Also cover as many of your tattoos as possable"and believe me it can be done!" I know a lady that had neck to toes tatoos and we still managed it! And she took out all her piercings too. She got her whole case droped without any past fines or court cost. It was a case were she would have normaly had to pay something. Even the guys that I have given this advice too it worked wonders and I am from a very very small predjuce town. Also get your butt in your seat before the judge enters the room "if u don't this really pisses them off bad" Don't leave your seat before the judge leaves and "CLOSES the door" You don't know how many times I've seen a judge look through the crack in betwen the door and jam as he is leaving to see who got up to leave. Yes some of those judges will sink that low. I guess they are humen just like the rest of us! To add I am mostly talking about associate court because anyone going to Trial should know better there lawer having told them the rules "hopfully u dont end up with a cheap idiot! That gets u canned!" Much Warm Regards!!!! And Good Luck!!!!

Also add: DO NOT sample your

Also add: DO NOT sample your product before driving home. Drive safely, under the posted speed limit, signal properly (but not obsessively), and don't duck down the nearest street if a cop appears in your rearview mirror.

Probably most drug busts in vehicles are preceeded by "pretext stops," which are perfectly legal stops made by the cops to get a chance to look inside your car. Failure to signal a turn is a legitimate reason to stop someone; so is veering over the yellow line by even a fraction of an inch, driving even 1 mph over the limit, and trying to drive while looking in the mirror when a cop is behind you.

If you cannot meet these criteria, take the bus home. Or pop for a taxi. No matter how wasted you are, cops don't stop busses to search everyone.

Further

Okay, the above was quite sincere, but I'll reset a bit and take a more academic posture with the following.

Scott very correctly notes that an officer may for essentially any reason at all get you to submit to a body patdown. (Terry v Ohio).

So don't resist such a patdown if asked. But never, never consent to a search of your vehicle or your other private property.

And that's not only if you're on that short drive between supplier and your home, but imho, even more pertinent if you're driving along and are as far as you know, clean as whistlef for illegal contraband.

1) What if there's something in the car you don't know about?

Ever dropped anything that may have fallen between or under the seats? If you guess wrong, a lifetime criminal record could await you.

2) Ever had a passenger in your car drop anything? Or worse yet, ever had a passenger in your car who just MIGHT, if riding with you at the time of the stop and becoming frightened, INTENTIONALLY "drops" something under your seat?

Remember, a single wrong guess is costly....

But let's say you're really, really sure you and the car are clean.

A cop's search of your vehicle could involve anywhere from a couple of minutes to a half hour or more if he really wanted to poke around and call for dog or support. And if you have no contraband, the search is of course futile.

I submit that it is irresponnsible as a citizen for me to facilitate such a huge waste of police time. If I know my car is clean, I KNOW he's wasting time that could be used for more important work. He is far better off writing me my ticket or giving me a warning for my alleged traffic infraction and then we all go about our day.

And akin to that, I'll be damned if MY TIME is not worth more than standing by waiting for a cop to search my clean vehicle just to find out its clean.

Now you owe your nearest DPR org (try the DONATE key at the top of this page...smile) at least a buck....Unless you think my last two posts weren't at least 5% as informative as Mr Cooper's DVD?

Cooper is right. Terry has be

Cooper is right. Terry has been interpreted by the present Supreme Court to cover vehicle "pat downs" if the officer has a "reasonable belief" there might be something dangerous in the car, especially if there's someone in the car besides you. If they want to, police can pretty much guarantee their asses are covered in court by saying they saw you "make a movement" as you pulled over (ie, you were hiding a gun under the seat); or that there were children nearby (kids within a three-block radius are always in danger); or that your passenger was acting nervous.

Refusing a search will, indeed, invalidate the search; but the cop's going to search anyway regardless. If he finds anything he doesn't like, your ass is going to jail, and you'll be arguing your 4th Amendment rights were violated from there. And if he finds anything much beyond a little personal-use pot, there is almost no judge worth her salt anywhere in America who will bother listening to your complaints. You'll go to the can still protesting your violated rights, and your only hope at that point is that you've been incarcerated in California, where our liberal 9th Circuit Court of Appeals often overturns such cases. Several years later, of course.

Theoretically, you have the right to simply leave once you've signed the citation, and there's where cops catch lots of people. They can dick around for a "reasonable period" of time writing your citation--anywhere up to two hours if they can justify it in court--and if you leave BEFORE you sign the ticket, that's called evading arrest, and leads to some of the enthralling car pursuits we get around here during rush hour.

In re Texas, it's actually true in any state. If you go to jail, they WILL search your car; it's called an "inventory search" and is allegedly used to protect the cops from you claiming they stole your $5000 stereo system while you were bonding out. But, of course, they will gladly "inventory" any contraband you may have while protecting their butts.

I smell a mole

You know, I seriously suspect that instead of being a "champion for casual drug users" as he's reputed to be, Cooper is actually on the police payroll. Every other article I've read about Cooper indicates that he's a 'rebel,' he's turned his back on the law enforcement community, and so on. Could it be they're simply building up his reputation to be some sort of 'undercover cop,' aiding and abetting law enforcement while being marketed as a Benedict Arnold?

Think of how many stoners there will be watching this film, taking in that advice as The Word, and think the cops will give them a break?

There's NO WAY I would willingly give up my rights (however tattered they are at this point) to do a favour for someone whose job is to put me in jail...Absolutely no way.

Your Smeller is Broken!

You titled your post "I SMELL A MOLE." Well your smeller is broken!!! I purposely waited this long before I replied to your accusation because now (2 months later) it is clear to everybody that I am not a cop. I assist defense attorneys in beating drug dog cases and I have a page on my website mapping locations citizens are likely to encounter drug interdiction officers. www.nevergetbusted.com Cops do not do these things. In fact, I suggest to everybody that whomever directs you away from the good information in my DVD is probably a cop themselves and does not want you exposed to the truth!!!

Barry

TO Ref. Your Smeller is Broken !

You go Berry! Glad to see u pay attention to this and other sites! I live in a town were we are abused by our police officers on a daily basis! And I can tell u I'v had my share of them in my face when i voice my rights and there are some dirty cops there is just no getting around thay live to be a dick for what ever reason! Of course I recently had a diehard come to me and we had a little chat. And hes not so die hard anymore after a few personal runnins himself. He didn't like it either being messed with by his own people while trying to do what he was asked to do by his uppers! So he has also changed his tune! And he is right in line with u all the way!

Some thoughts

Just one guy's opinion here. For the record, I'm not associated with anyone involved in this (FYR, Loretta Nall, Cooper, etc.), nor am I an attorney, etc. And I haven't seen Cooper's entire DVD, just the sample clips.

"2. I think it would be a good idea for everybody to view the dvd for themselves and make their own judgements."

For those who are unaware, there are sample clips available on Cooper's website, both on the main page *and* in a "sneak previews" section.

"4. We have recieved over 100 great reviews. The only negative review has come from Loretta and that is because her and I had words months ago."

I read Loretta Nall's comments (follow the links and you'll find them easily enough), and it seems blatantly obvious to me that she has some strong personal grudge against Cooper. That doesn't necessarily mean that anything she says is untrue, but it does raise some suspicions in my mind that she may be at least taking things out of context, assuming ill motives on Cooper's part, etc.

"6. I am not a cop!!!"

It's a natural suspicion, but after watching the sample clips, I think he's on the level.

"7. Of course I am making money with this dvd"

Sure he's making money. This is America, he's operating in the finest capitalist tradition, and God bless 'im for that. Sorry to disappoint the socialists out there, but there's nothing wrong *in itself* with making a living, or even with getting rich.

"8. The Consent to Search segment was taught by me based on my experience."

I have no doubt about Cooper's statement that a refusal makes cops determined to get in. But I think he's only telling half the story. I'm sure there are some times when a refusal inspires a reaction of, "ok, he's probably clean, but we'll still teach this bastard a lesson about who's *really* in charge." Either way, it amounts to the same thing.

"9. An asshole cop like I was and the majority of cops"

I don't know Cooper personally, but as far as "the majority" goes, hey, no argument at all from me. I've encountered, either directly or one step removed, examples of all the worst that American police have to offer; the officer who thinks "contempt of cop" is the worst offense possible; the sheriff's department where the officers make most of their incomes from drug sales to jail inmates; the officer who pulls people over for "driving while black"; the officer who plants evidence; the officer who lies under oath; the officer who views the general public with contempt; etc. I've come to believe that the average cop is probably trying to do the right thing (as he sees it) generally, but has long since decided that "you've gotta get a little dirty to be effective," and so doesn't lose any sleep after spending a day committing perjury or violating someone's rights if it "serves the greater good." And that's the average cop; half are even worse.

And here's the thing. I've never been arrested. I haven't even smoked any weed in years. None of my close friends are criminals. I'm about as close to "Mr. Respectable" as you can get. And I'm not in an occupation or lifestyle that leads to frequent contact with the police.

"I think some of the anger directed toward me with this topic should be directed toward law enforcement for this type of behavior."

Agreed. I fully expect some law enforcement officer to check in here and make the requisite remarks about "the thin blue line" or recite his favorite Jack Webb speech from "Dragnet." Here's one law-abiding citizen who just doesn't buy it anymore, and who has come to view *any* encounter with the police as an inherently adversarial situation where the other party has all the advantages. And I'm sure that I'm far from the only one. If any LEOs are reading this, maybe *that* is the real take-home message here; the well-deserved loss of confidence from the American public.

"12. Bottom line, we all have more in common than we have different"

Not exactly what Cooper seemed to mean by this, but some of his information and advice does dovetail with FYR's. During his "actual marijuana arrest" clip, he describes taking advantage of the driver's open (all the way) window to take a big sniff. He says at one point in the narration, "you have the right to remain silent; use it!" Again, I haven't seen the entire DVD, but it seems to me that representing it as simply "Waive Your Rights" vs. "Flex Your Rights" is a distortion and oversimplification.

My bottom line -- I'll probably buy Cooper's DVD; it seems like an interesting look at the dark side of law enforcement from the inside, and probably has some useful information. But ultimately, I can't agree with consenting to a search. That amounts to tossing away any possible defense, then keeping your fingers crossed. Given my low faith in cops, this seems tantamount to dropping your pants, bending over and grabbing your ankles, and hoping you don't get screwed.

Thanks for the responses, Bar

Thanks for the responses, Barry. I see what you mean by coming at the same issue with a different perspective. It's sort of like the definition of "not seeing eye-to-eye," but it doesn't mean that one of us is necessarily wrong (your 12th point is well-stated).

Best of luck with the Never Get Busted Again series...!

I have refused searches and it worked

On three different occasions police officers requested to search my car on two of them and my house on the other. Once was in COlorado,one was in Nevada and the other was in Indiana. It worked like a charm ALL three times.

In one instance they did the good cop bad cop routine to get me to consent and I continued to refuse. They even said that they didn't care about pot, that they just wanted to make sure everyone was OK. Eventually they backed down.

In the other, they separated me from the driver who I gave a crash course in refusing consent in the minute or two before the officer got to the vehicle. THey pulled the "divide and conquer move" and used a lot of clever sounding questions to trick us into consenting, but when my nervous female friend sheepishly responded by saying, "I don't have anything to hide, but that doesn't mean I am consenting to a search" they gave us a warning and drove off.

In another instance, the cop claimed he was part of a new "Safe Streets initiative" that required him to "take a look" in vehicles for explosives. Then he said, "You don't mind if I take a look, do you?"
"I don't consent to any searches" were the last words I said to the officer. His last words were, "OK. Have a good day."

In all three cases I was clearly in violation of a law. In one case I was cited for that and in the other two I was not. In both cases I am positive that only bad things could have come from consenting. I was skeptical about refusing consent until I tried it and it worked EVERY time. ANd had it not worked, I know I would be giving my lawyer an excellent leg to stand on.

If it wasn't for my repeated viewings of Flex Your Rights' film BUSTED, I would have likely not been prepared for those encounters and wound up being intimidated into consenting. It is also likely that I would be rationalizing why consenting was the best option. No one wants to admit, even to themselves, that they were too weak to refuse.

Did they have a reasonable suspicion? Maybe, but my hunch is that they didn't want to be in the position of defending that suspicion in court when the next couple dozen people will simply consent and they won't have to defend their search.

Belief that the police have or will manufacture probable cause is not a good reason to consent to a search. Not consenting is not only the best strategy from a legal standpoint, but it is also an opportunity to flex the remaining rights we have left and to leave the scene with your dignity in tact.

Great review

I just wanted to pop in and thank all the wonderful folks at Flex Your Rights for this detailed review of Never Get Busted and a breakdown of the many things that are wrong with it. It was just spectacular!!

For the record, I have nothing personal against Mr. Cooper. I have a great deal of mistrust for him because of so many red flags over the last few months. I contest his assertion that we have had words in the past. We haven't. I posted our conversations on my blog yesterday so that everyone could see that I was always polite in my queries. I had a great deal of hope for this video and am very disappointed with what it contained. I am also very disappointed in Mr. Cooper's reaction to my critique. I thought he would have thicker skin. It is hard enough for those of us in drug policy reform to trust someone who has spent a portion of their life putting us in jail. It is ever harder to welcome them to the fold when it seems like their mission is to make money selling bad information to people who simply want to remain free citizens. It is predatory!

I am still willing to talk with Mr. Cooper. I would like to start by having him answer the questions I have been posing to him for over a month. Then we can go from there.

WindyPundit also has an incredible open letter to Mr. Cooper. I hope he takes the time to read it and implement the advice as well as the advice of Flex Your Rights.

Loretta Nall

Time And False Words Reveal Truth

Loretta posted this on Feb 14, 2007:

For the record, I have nothing personal against Mr. Cooper. I have a great deal of mistrust for him because of so many red flags over the last few months. I contest his assertion that we have had words in the past. We haven't. I posted our conversations on my blog yesterday so that everyone could see that I was always polite in my queries.

She posted this on her own web site Feb 11, 2007, three days prior to the above post:

I don't think his insertion of his wife into this discussion has anything to do with police psychology. I think it has way more to do with the fact that most drug policy reformers and organizations are about to take my lead and rip this fucktard to shreds. He's scared and he is running to hide behind wifey's skirt because he has no legitimate defense to offer regarding the questions and red flags raised.

Barry Writes:

POLITE AND OBJECTIVE? I purposely discontinued responding to Loretta's bias comments several months ago because I knew her own words and time would reveal the truth. I was patient and confident time would prove my sincere intentions more than arguing on the internet with haters.

I am curious what policy reformers and organizations are about to take Loretta's lead and rip me to shreds? The Dallas NORML Chapter and the University of North Texas NORML Chapter recently sponsored my Anti-Drug-War Conference at the University of North Texas while ABC's 20/20 was present for the story. I do and always have supported all drug reformation organizations regardless of certain individual personality conflicts between a few.

I have received several emails reporting Loretta has deleted posts on her web site that respond in my defense. A quick look at her site shows no post opposing her views. Her forum and review is bias and can't be trusted. She should stop erasing post and allow free speech.

You can visit my updated web site, nevergetbusted.com, browse the NGM COMMUNITY PAGE and discover a map reporting where citizens are likely to encounter drug interdiction officer on the highways of America. I also added a forum where you can ask questions and your post, negative or positive, will not be deleted to slant my arguments.

I leave you with an excerpt from an unbiased and popular review:

This is an excerpt from a popular review posted by windypundit.com after viewing my DVD. Mark Draughn writes:

"If you sometimes travel by car with small amounts of marijuana—a few joints, say—then this video will probably help you avoid getting busted.

In my first post about this video, when it was just buzz on the Internet, I said I thought Cooper was a hustler looking for a quick buck, and that I'd apologize if I was wrong. I think I have to apologize a bit.

Barry Cooper may be trying to make a quick buck, but the word "hustler" carries a connotation of dishonesty that was unwarranted. Sorry Barry. Your DVD is what you said it would be."

Barry

Integrity Check

I just posted the above reply on Loretta's site. Of course I got the message instructing my post must be approved by Loretta before posting. Let's wait and see if she deletes or not.

Barry

Don't Listen to Cooper -- Never Consent to a Search

A friend of mine kept delaying viewing BUSTED, so I gave her a two minute crash course. Sure enough, that weekend she was in her car with three others and got pulled over. As she was being pulled over she quickly instructed the others in the car to refuse all attempts by the officer(s) to search the vehicle or their persons -- she was sure to mention that the advice came from her drug policy reform professional friend. The cops tried the "divide and conquer" thing, but all of them said that they do not consent to a search. The cop was on his way.

Flex Your Rights has had their advice vetted by countless top lawyers and other top-notch professionals, and their advice has stood the test of time. Taking Cooper's advice as far as allowing an officer to search your car if you only have a little bit of well-hidden marijuana would be a HUGE mistake. If a cop searches without consent, it's an illegal search and the case is thrown out of court. If a cop doesn't have reasonable suspicion in the first place to detain you until a drug dog gets there, then the case can be thrown out of court. Consenting to a search leaves you no defense in court. Why the hell would one not want to use their best defensive move? NEVER, I repeat, NEVER CONSENT TO A SEARCH! Cooper simply needs to accept that he is wrong, notify the purchasers of his video, and move on. It is okay to make mistakes...

Oh, and Cooper should also leave out the line "The Most Trusted Name In Anti-Prohibition." Give me a break, Barry. Try having some respect for the organizations that have been working for decades to accomplish what you only recently espoused as your goals -- organizations that have tens of thousands of members, policy professionals working for them, that have built long-term, fruitful relationships with members of Congress, changed harmful drug laws, provide cutting-edge journalism and in the field, etc., etc., etc. You catch more flies with honey...

In Ref. To Don't Listen--

Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla you don't know shit about what goes on in the little known small towns do you?!!!!!!!! We have to servive out here in Missouri In meth grand centeral were almost every cop in the town are on it and dirty as hell!! And even though I always Flex My Rights when the dirty cops buck up agienst my family, friends, and myself. Somtimes "most of the time!" it dosen't work!!!! So for years I myself have studyed how our lovely little dirty cops work. Only by standing my ground. And ALSO using some dirty tricks of my own have we prevailed!!!!! But only to a point!!!! But at least it has kept us all out of jail!! We are still being subjected to car and home serches some home serches at 12 to 3 in the morning while our kids sleep,if we are lucky!!! With them finding nothing!!! And this will go on even finding nothing!!! And I happen to be a well dressed blonde with no tatoos, piercings. Pretty much the ones you say cops won't bother. But you are so wrong!!! No profile here! You try coming to a town like mine and see if it works for you!! I can tell you right now it won't because you will be the first one busted just because you are from out of town!! They are going to assume you are dirty! Because why else would you come so far out of your way. No matter what you look like. Or because of it!! I can tell you its a no win sitch! So they will be pulling you over as I drive by knowing your smart ass is going to jail tonight because you couldn't unbend to take a little advice and use your commen since to use some of Mr. Coppers tips!!!!!!! Rights only do not always work! Sometimes you have to have more brains!! And I will go happly unnoticed for at least one night!!!!!

North Carolina Cops

Tonya, North Carolina cops are worse than any horror story you could ever read. They are horrible to law abiding citizens.

Jon Katz is having trouble un

Jon Katz is having trouble understanding my motive other than money for producing the dvd. When viewing my dvd, the audience learns I have been the target of FIVE unreasonable arrests and ONE unreasonable search and attempted seizure of my two daughters. I was harmed physically, emotionally and financially from these events. These episodes terrorized my family and included cops leaving bruises on my strait "A" popular 14 year old daughter. I heard the screams of my children, (one of whom is a 4 year old handicap boy), crying out for me to help them. My children continued yelling for their mother to help them but she couldn't because of threats by officers of placing her in jail. My children chose to fight the police by "airplaining" as the officers attempted to stuff them in a patrol car. Other officers arrived and convinced those mishandling my kids to turn them loose and not serve the bogus writ of attachment. So Jon, please understand, my family and I were terrorized by law enforcement just as I use to terrorize families when I was a cop. My motivation for the dvd was two-fold...to make money and help stop these crazy searches and arrests. In an earlier email to me you indicated you have not viewed my dvd. Please view my dvd and the above will come alive to you.

Scott,
I answered your "Offer to Barry Cooper" a short time ago. I think it is only fair if I am willing to take my time away from promoting my dvd and building my company in order to maintain an open diologue with you by answering all your questions, you should change the title on this website from "Barry Cooper's Video Could Get You Busted" to something a little more appropriate. This being your website which is also selling a dvd about traffic stops makes you look bias. I understand you are non-profit but non-profit does not mean employees are not paid and your company is not making money. What you are doing is similar to me starting a new page on my website, trashing your dvd, and having all my followers join in the party. My followers would post personal experiences they had where giving consent aided in their not being arrested. I would never do this because my goal is not to cause harm to anybody assisting in this war against the war on people.

Does anybody that has posted thus far have any ought against HighTimes Magazine, the leader in Cannabis publications? It is my understanding their credibility is huge!!! I've always trusted them and so have millions of other readers. Here is a quote from Hightimes, "Barry Cooper's DVD, Never Get Busted, should be owned by every pot-smoker in America"--Pot Star, High Times Magazine. Their entire office loved the dvd!!!

Consent to Search: Don't hate on the entire dvd because you did not agree with one section. I still stand behind my statements regarding the consent but remember this was a small portion of the dvd. By posting titles like "Barry's Cooper's Video Could Get You Busted" sort of implies the entire dvd is bad. I think it unwise to continue my dialogue on this site if some level of fairness is not established.

I would not be opposed to recommending the purchase of FLEXYOURRIGHTS from my website but will not point my customers to a sight with unfair titles. Scott, if you are looking for perfection in me and my dvd before joining forces, it will never happen because I am not a perfect person. Again, it is my desire to promote each other and not tear each other down. Please consider.

Regards,
Barry
PS. Jon, this really is me. Smiles.

Barry's Comments #3

I screwed up and forgot to put my info in prior to hitting the post button. Sorry. Below is my response. Cheers.

Jon Katz is having trouble understanding my motive other than money for producing the dvd. When viewing my dvd, the audience learns I have been the target of FIVE unreasonable arrests and ONE unreasonable search and attempted seizure of my two daughters. I was harmed physically, emotionally and financially from these events. These episodes terrorized my family and included cops leaving bruises on my strait "A" popular 14 year old daughter. I heard the screams of my children, (one of whom is a 4 year old handicap boy), crying out for me to help them. My children continued yelling for their mother to help them but she couldn't because of threats by officers of placing her in jail. My children chose to fight the police by "airplaining" as the officers attempted to stuff them in a patrol car. Other officers arrived and convinced those mishandling my kids to turn them loose and not serve the bogus writ of attachment. So Jon, please understand, my family and I were terrorized by law enforcement just as I use to terrorize families when I was a cop. My motivation for the dvd was two-fold...to make money and help stop these crazy searches and arrests. In an earlier email to me you indicated you have not viewed my dvd. Please view my dvd and the above will come alive to you.

Scott,
I answered your "Offer to Barry Cooper" a short time ago. I think it is only fair if I am willing to take my time away from promoting my dvd and building my company in order to maintain an open diologue with you by answering all your questions, you should change the title on this website from "Barry Cooper's Video Could Get You Busted" to something a little more appropriate. This being your website which is also selling a dvd about traffic stops makes you look bias. I understand you are non-profit but non-profit does not mean employees are not paid and your company is not making money. What you are doing is similar to me starting a new page on my website, trashing your dvd, and having all my followers join in the party. My followers would post personal experiences they had where giving consent aided in their not being arrested. I would never do this because my goal is not to cause harm to anybody assisting in this war against the war on people.

Does anybody that has posted thus far have any ought against HighTimes Magazine, the leader in Cannabis publications? It is my understanding their credibility is huge!!! I've always trusted them and so have millions of other readers. Here is a quote from Hightimes, "Barry Cooper's DVD, Never Get Busted, should be owned by every pot-smoker in America"--Pot Star, High Times Magazine. Their entire office loved the dvd!!!

Consent to Search: Don't hate on the entire dvd because you did not agree with one section. I still stand behind my statements regarding the consent but remember this was a small portion of the dvd. By posting titles like "Barry's Cooper's Video Could Get You Busted" sort of implies the entire dvd is bad. I think it unwise to continue my dialogue on this site if some level of fairness is not established.

I would not be opposed to recommending the purchase of FLEXYOURRIGHTS from my website but will not point my customers to a sight with unfair titles. Scott, if you are looking for perfection in me and my dvd before joining forces, it will never happen because I am not a perfect person. Again, it is my desire to promote each other and not tear each other down. Please consider.

Regards,
Barry
PS. Jon, this really is me. Smiles.

Come on, Barry

I understand your concern. I'll gladly change the title if you'll inform your audience of the various situations in which consenting to a search is not your recommendation. In my experience doing know-your-rights education, I've learned that citizens must be prepared to assert their rights if necessary, even if they want to use your concealment strategy as their first line of defense.

It's not personal at all. I don't know why you're sounding offended all of a sudden. I've been clear from the begining that this isn't personal. All of my criticisms are fact based, are they not? Bear with me, please.

I've been saying this for 4 years and I can't stop now just because you mean well, or because I agree with you about other things. I've written a helpful addendum to your consent searches discussion that you agree with. Are you going to share my offering with your viewers? You can edit it to your liking and you don't have to credit me. They'll appreciate it.

You've hinted at "bias" now, but I don't think anyone would believe that. We offer Katya Komisaruk's book Beat The Heat even though it's less profitable for us than the DVD. You've challenged a central theme of our materials, Barry. Is it "bias" that we stand up for our message? Clearly not. That's ridiculous.

If you didn't expect this debate, you should have. Please don't be offended by it.

The list I've created is an offering of friendship to you and your viewers. Send it out, dude. Please.

Thanks Scott!!!

I will eblast my Barry's Buds Customer list today with the "helpful addendum" attached. I will not edit the 4 wonderful points you made and I will credit you with the addendum. My customers deserve knowing there are people like you out there with a real concern for good information. I would also like to speak with you by telephone about placing a small insert advertising your dvd in all my future orders. It would not cost you a dime except for the printing. It seems we have the same demographic.

Thanks for changing the title. I don't know what you will change it to but trust it will be fine. I am sorry if I sounded offended, I wrote my post with a smiling heart. That's the crazy thing about text only messaging...the attitude of the writer is not always captured.

My respect level for you Scott has been raised to a high level. Thanks for handling some of these sensitive issues with so much class!!!

Regards,

Barry

Eblast To My Customers

I just finished drafting the promised letter which will go out to all my customers and Barry's Buds. Here it is:

Greetings NGB Customer,

Scott Morgan with Flex Your Rights wrote additional addendums to my consent to search chapter that I endorse 100%. I was unable to fully discuss the lengthy topic of search and seizure in my dvd because of a 90 minute time constraint. Please consider the following information as reliable and add it to your arsenal of tips you learned in my NEVERGETBUSTED TRAFFIC STOPS VIDEO. I will not be filling your mailbox with unnecessary emails or emails promoting new products. I just felt a sense of urgency to educate you with the following information:

I propose the following addendums to Barry Cooper's advice regarding consent searches in Never Get Busted Again Vol. 1: Traffic Stops. This information is intended to help those who have private items that aren't well hidden, who are concerned that passengers may have stashed unknown items, or who have nothing to hide and wish to protect their 4th Amendment rights. I urge Barry Cooper to disseminate this information via his email list.

1. Be aware that consenting to a search means that you're waiving your 4th Amendment protection against unreasonable searches and seizures. If anything illegal is found after you've consented to a search, there will be very little your attorney can do for you. (Barry might add "so make sure your stash is well hidden!")

2. If an officer asks to search and you have private items that are not well hidden, always REFUSE consent. If you are searched and arrested after refusing consent, your lawyer can file a motion to suppress (throw out) the evidence in court. Many people don't realize how often illegally obtained evidence is declared inadmissible due to 4th Amendment challenges from skilled attorneys. If you believe a search would produce evidence against you, refusing consent is your best option.

3. If you've got nothing to hide, always refuse the search. This will offer a good low-stakes opportunity to test the professionalism of the police in your area. If you are searched illegally, nothing will be found and it will help police to recognize that innocent people have an interest in their privacy rights too. If you are searched, contact an attorney to discuss possible litigation. Challenging police misconduct is difficult, but essential if progress is to be made.

4. If you find it necessary to refuse a search for the reasons listed above, calmly state the following: "Officer I don't consent to any searches. Am I free to go?" If the officer responds with threats ("I'll bring a drug dog"; "I'll impound your car," etc.) calmly repeat your request to leave until you receive a response. If the officer says you may leave, depart immediately regardless of anything else he says. If you believe your rights are being violated, don't tell the officer. Do your best to memorize everything that is said and write it down the first chance you get. This will help your attorney help you.

NEVERGETBUSTED IS WORKING ON A NEW PAGE FOR OUR WEBSITE!!!!!! The page will map the exact highways you are likely to encounter a drug interdiction officer in the U.S. and will rate their likeliness or unlikeliness of violating your 4th ammendment rights. The data will be compiled through your emails to me of your encounters with officers in your area. Please report to me any strong interdiction efforts being made in your area. Your local newspaper is a great source for this type of information. Access to this wonderful resource will be free. I will be the first to submit to this project:

If you are traveling on I-20 between Tyler and Longview, TX, be aware of Volunteer Constable, Mark Water. He frequently works this portion of Interstate and has quick access to a K-9. I personally watched a video of Mark making a drug seizure after a K-9's was encouraged to FALSE ALERT. Mark Waters grade is an "F" when it comes to violating 4th amendment rights.

Please send me your information.

Thanks,

Barry N. Cooper
CEO/NeverGetBusted

Thanks!

That makes me feel a lot better, Barry.

A big part of my frustration has been the fear that your viewers would be unprepared for situations other than the one described in your video. This should go a long way towards addressing that issue.

I've changed the title to something less critical as promised. Hope it works for ya. As for your other generous offer, I'll be in touch.

Peace & Freedom,

Scott

Props to Scott

Props to you Scott...you really care. If I can ever help Flex Your Rights, let me know.
Barry

Hats off to Barry

I was extremely skeptical after watching reading this blog and watching the section on consenting to searches, but the level of civil discourse that took place here (and on various other blogs) really amazes me. In my mind, Barry has distinguished himself from that typical law enforcement officer stereotype depicted in these types of videos. His willingness to openly debate perceived flaws in his advice is admirable, the icing on the cake being the addendum based Scott’s recommendations.

Re-Listen to What I Said on Radio

Please listen to the broadcast again Mr. Lake. This is not what I said. You are taking things out of context and adding your own comments. I can clearly be heard wanting to join reformationist. What I said and what you heard are two different things. This really hurts your credibility. It can also be easily discovered I am an outspoken supporter of ENDING the entire drug war...not just legalizing pot.
Barry

What do I think?

I think Barry is pro-reform. He doesn't claim to be God's gift to anything.

How didn't he have the money to produce it? Are you his banker?

Did Barry sell you a car? What proof do you have that he has "failed" at anything? As for Stroup, isn't NORMAL now supporting Barry?

When did Barry say people who use mushrooms belong in jail?

Loretta Nall's bias is obvious when she uses words like "moron" and "fucktard" to describe a man she attacked the integrity of first. She is lowering the level of discourse with playground talk rather than facing the issue.

Oh, and the many great reviews are on his web site, in the testimonials section. Seems like the DVD has already helped a lot of people.

Why would High Times give a column to a liar and a thief? Would you call High Times profiteers because they make money off their magazine? That magazine does contain "insider" advice and informaion, just like Barry's DVD. And yet even with all the progress made with the people who matter, the "blogosphere" is still abuzz with failed libertarian leaders and their crews who confuse the issue and slow down dialogue with their hatred and fear of ALL police, especially former cops. What if one returned to repent and turn everything on its ear? Would you hear him out? It looks like many are, much to your chagrin.

Darren?

Richard,

I don't think you meant to direct this comment at Darren Gruber. Darren Gruber is awesome.

In Ref. To all non believers!

Come on cant you people have a little faith in your fellow humans. I live in one of the worst towns! And even I keep hoping they will change! Yes some of them have too!!! Its a wonder!! Bad cops CAN turn good and so what if he makes some money off it!!? He is putting his ass on the line!! He is a ex-cop turning on the brotherhood do any of you realize what they could have done to him!!!??? I will just say from my own towns exper. it wouldn't be pretty and they could have went after his whole family!!! And if you no-it-alls would do a little reserch of your own you would be able to find out the truth of what this man Barry Cooper is all about if you really wanted to!!! So get off your asses and do some of the leg work yourself! Instead of bitching!!!! And refuring to what everyone eles has to say!!!!! The mans trying to do a good thing! No one is perfect!!! He is doing the best he can with what he has!!! So Cudos to Mr. Cooper!!!!!!!!!!!!

Barry's Response to Jon

Jon writes "I applaud Mr. Cooper for admitting to such past police behavior. However, I feel all the more uncomfortable buying his DVD with his above-listed admissions, without hearing from him (e.g., on his website, and without being implored to buy his video for his explanation for such behavior) why he acted that way as a cop, what made him recognize such behavior was wrong, and what he is doing and will do (beyond selling his DVD) to try to persuade cops -- from rookies to the most experienced cops -- to encourage them not to act that way."

Please watch my dvd. It will answer all the above questions. If you don't like it after that, send it back and I will refund your entire purchase including postage just as my website states. If you will read "EBLAST TO MY CUSTOMERS" in this thread, you will learn I am adding a page to my website which will point out bad police searches. Maybe this will "encourage them not to act that way" because now they are being watched by an ex-narc who will say it!!!! My dvd alone is also encouraging law enforcment "not to act that way" because I am exposing their motives. PLEASE WATCH THE DVD. It seems most of my critics who are still being critical have not watched the dvd for themselves. Smiles.

Barry

Props to Watson

Great discernment of me and my product in your post titled "Some Thoughts" in this thread. Thanks.
Barry

Jon Gets a Free DVD

Well there you have it!!! A defense attorney not willing to spend $25.00 to help his clients. Smiles Jon just kidding. My defense attorney, Bobby Mims, a very well known attorney in Texas (Close to 20 capital murder cases) thought the dvd was excellent and thought it would help his clients.

Go to my site www.nevergetbusted.com and click on the "NEWS" button. You will easily find a link to a front page article in the Houston Press and Dallas Observer. This lengthy story ran Feb 1 in both papers. I think reading this article will help answer some of your questions Jon.

I am also going to mail you a copy of my dvd for free. I will put it in the mail tomorrow. You owe me a lunch. I have a heart for defense attorneys. They truly are the buffer between police and citizens and play the largest role in keeping America from becoming a police state.

Jon, please view the dvd and post your opinions back on this board. Keep up the good fight.

Barry

Jon Katz

I just noticed your street address is not available on your post so I called the number on your post and got it!!!! Cheers.
Barry

Please keep your DVD; there is no such thing as a free lunch.

By now, Barry and I each have made our views clear on this FYR webpage.

Certainly, I stand to learn some things from Barry's DVD, just as I have things to learn from everyone. Balanced against that is Barry's appearance on the drug reform scene late last year from out of nowhere, asking drug reform supporters to trust him in such a short timespan, and asking people to order his DVD to answer the types of questions I have listed on this page, rather than just taking a stab at answering those questions on his website.

Countless lives are being injured and destroyed by the types of asshole and terrorizing police behavior Barry has admitted to practicing in the past, and even from well-meaning cops and prosecutors trying to enforce draconian drug laws. For years I have witnessed this firsthand, on the streets, in the courts, in my office, and in the jails. I do not ignore the dread I feel over the situation, even as I continually focus on an effective battle.

I feel out of balance at this point being added to Barry's DVD distribution and marketing statistics, even if he is sending it gratis.

Therefore, Barry, please keep your DVD. I shall return it unopened if you still send it. If the time comes for me to want your shipment, I will send payment in full. That time has not come.

To liberty for all,

Jon

P.S. I will copy this message to Barry through his e-address.

Terry Frisk

Hmmm, officers can do terry frisks on cars also...it does not just pertain to persons, but extends to vehicles when you are in them.

Need more info

I'm sure police officers have claimed the right to do things like this, but I've never seen the precedent for it.

Perhaps a state court somewhere has permitted this? If that's true, and I don't know that it is, but if so, it's misleading to describe it as a universal policy.

How to NOT AGREE to consent

I think we should draw a distinction between REFUSING to consent
and DISAGREEING to consent.

When I hear refusal to consent, I picture someone standing up and shouting "I REFUSE! I REFUSE! TRY AS YOU MAY, YOU WILL NOT GET YOUR
DIRTY LITTLE HANDS INSIDE THIS VEHICLE!". I don't think anyone can disagree that this would be an extreme reasonable suspicion.

I found this article to be extremely valuable, especially after having watched Barry's video last night. His advice about agreeing to consent certainly seems logical after having come forward about the cops' psychology about how to bust people. After reading this article I quickly changed my mind.

There is considerable gray area on how to not agree to consent. Although I have not been involved in a situation where I had a cop ask to search my vehicle, my strategy might be like this:

Cop: "May I search your vehicle?"

Response: "I would first want to understand why you feel it is necessary. I can see that there are many dangerous people out there and it would keep us all safer if police could keep dangerous things out of dangerous peoples' hands. However I am a very private person and believe strongly in personal privacy. Since I don't want to agree to consent, I have nothing left but to disagree."

Now obviously, the scenario I outlined at the beginning about refusing is a bit extreme. But compare my strategy with something more realistic:

Cop: "May I search your vehicle?"

Response: "You may not search my vehicle, since I as an american citizen have rights guaranteed by the US constitution. My rights are undeniable and if you decide to violate my rights I will take you to court and you will probably lose your job. It's cops like you who think they can do whatever they want that are making this such a backwards society."

With this said, I inaugurate the debate on how best to not agree to consent.

symbolicsorcery
---------------

"Officer, I know you're just

"Officer, I know you're just doing your job and I appreciate that. But I don't consent to searches...am I free to go?"

The simpler the better

[M]y strategy might be like this:

Cop: "May I search your vehicle?"

Response: "I would first want to understand why you feel it is necessary. I can see that there are many dangerous people out there and it would keep us all safer if police could keep dangerous things out of dangerous peoples' hands. However I am a very private person and believe strongly in personal privacy. Since I don't want to agree to consent, I have nothing left but to disagree."

Ok, compare that to Scott's version, which I greatly prefer. The only thing I'd change is that I'd reverse it by saying, "I do not consent to be searched," then pause until I was sure the cop had heard and understood me, then (if I felt it was necessary) I'd offer any polite remarks I felt were appropriate ("I know you're just doing your job," etc.) First things first. But that's just me, and I suspect that Scott can handle himself quite well in such situations, far better than I can ... ;)

Now, let me ask you -- what exactly does your version gain you? Nothing. If the cop thinks you've got contraband, he'll still think you've got contraband. If he's honest, he'll still be honest after you make your speech. If he's dishonest, your speech won't convince him to clean up his act; to him, you're just "someone he pulled over." And your refusal of searches which are unreasonable (in the 4th Amendment sense) doesn't require an explanation from you; that is your right, plain and simple.

But let's look at all the disadvantages of your strategy:

1) What about witnesses? If the cop makes an illegal search, and there are bystanders, it would be nice to be able to call them to the stand to back your story up. And if I were in that spot, I'd rather have a witness who will say, "he said it wasn't ok to search" than "he started talking about his civil rights and stuff."

2) The more you say, and the more qualifying language you use ("I'd rather," "maybe," etc.), the more opportunity you have for a dishonest cop to claim you consented. Consider that "I'd rather you didn't search" lets the cop claim that you reluctantly agreed to the search. Actually, your "nice speech" could be legitimately misunderstood by even the most honest cop as "I agree provided you explain your reasons"; a dishonest cop wouldn't hesitate to "misunderstand" you.

3) As you yourself said, it's not just the ideas you express, but how you express them. Your tone of voice, your posture, your gestures, your choice of words, etc. can all be used against you. Why give him anything more to work with?

4) Imagine a cop who says, as he opens your car door and gets in, "you don't have anything to hide so you don't mind, do you?" By the time you finished that speech, he'd already have half your car searched.

5) Consider that about 80% of people arrested go ahead and blab their heads off after they've been Mirandized. Why? Because the human urge to be approved of, to be forgiven (or at least understood), to be liked, etc. can be enormous. Here's what I think the biggest danger of all in your strategy is (and I've done doctoral work in psychology, so I'm not just blathering on this point) ... Playing for the cop's good regard, and offering justifications and explanations psychologically primes you to think in those terms -- that the cop's good regard is your goal (instead of preserving your rights), that your actions require justification (they don't), and that offering those justifications somehow gains you something (it doesn't). But there's nothing at all personal about this, and whether the cop respects your reasons or not is completely irrelevant. Take a cue from Michael Corleone -- "it's nothing personal, it's strictly business." Sticking to "I do not consent to any searches" keeps it on that level in your mind by brushing aside irrelevancies and focusing on the only important issue -- you want to protect your rights, and the cop wants you to waive them. If it irritates the cop, tough. (Actually, I doubt that it would. He'll probably just think you've been to this web page, or that your Mom or Dad is an attorney and has told you a few things.)

If you think I'm overstating that, talk to one of those 80% of arrestees who blabbed. They'll all tell you the same thing. "I knew I didn't have to talk, I had seen that a thousand times on TV, and they even told me that themselves; they gave me the Miranda speech. And when they read you your rights, you know you're in deep shit. But then there was this one cop, and he seemed like a pretty decent guy, and I was scared shitless, and I knew I shouldn't say anything, but I talked to him anyway. What the hell was I thinking?" Human beings are very susceptible to pressure, and cops are trained in how to take advantage of this.

One other thing I can't resist throwing in. I just finished reading Vincent Bugliosi's book on the OJ Simpson trial. Among other things, he dissects a statement Simpson made to the police the day after the murders. His analysis is a great illustration of just how many different ways a person can incriminate himself, even with seemingly innocent and irrelevant statements.

As for me, I'll stick to a few easy phrases. "I do not consent to any searches." "I want a lawyer." "I am remaining silent." "Am I free to leave?" Etc.

Roy Watson
bcrwatson@hotmail.com

Another FAIR review of the DVD

Just thought I would drop another recent review of my DVD in this thread since some on this thread are being a bit bias. Smiles.

Chris at www.meduser.ca wrote:

"I am sure many of you have been wondering what this DVD was all about, and whether it was above board and legit. I can say from my own perspective on this video, that this fellow has clearly been involved with, and subsequently gotten frustrated with being a police official, and that he offers a fresh view, and some wonderful insights into protecting yourself from unnecessary persecution and prosecution. Personally, I feel that Mr Cooper comes across as being sincere, and someone who genuinely wants to give something back, and help some folks from being arrested unnecessarily. All in all I believe this information could be valuable to folks who risk being harassed by law enforcement over cannabis, and it becomes doubly valuable to the many folks like ourselves here at meduser.ca, who are very ill and even terminal, and can do without the stigma, the stress and the threat to our physical well being, that looms over us as medical cannabis user’s."

The entire review can be seen at www.meduser.ca.

Thanks. I look forward to releasing my second DVD at the end to the summer.

Barry

Michigan v. Long US Supreme Court '83- Terry v. Ohio/vehicles

My name is J.H. I am an ex-police officer and narcotics interdiction officer. I do stats for Barry. Most of the stats you saw in his DVD "Never Get Busted" came from information I looked up in those hard-to-find locations- what the gov't don't want you to know, etc.

In regards to "Terry Frisks" of vehicles, in 1983, the US Supreme Court ruled in Michigan v. Long , 463 U.S. 1032 (1983) that extended Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. 1 (1968) to allow searches of car compartments during a stop with reasonable suspicion. The case also clarified and narrowed the extent of adequate and independent state ground, allowing U.S. Supreme Court review of state supreme court decisions unless they explicitly appealed to state laws.

David Long was questioned by police after driving his car off a road and into a shallow ditch in Barry County, Michigan. Officers said he acted erratically and that he, "appeared to be under the influence of something." Noticing a hunting knife on the floor of the car, they conducted a "Terry" protective patdown (named after Terry v. Ohio), but they turned up no weapons. They then conducted a "protective search" of the car with the same justification: searching for weapons. Inside the car, police found an exposed bag of marijuana. In the trunk they found approximately 75 pounds more, and Long was arrested for possession.

I too have seized 1/2 kilo of cocaine, and 3k in cash under a driver seat during a Terry frisk of the vehicle.

There are numerous other USC rulings upholding Terry v. Ohio, and losses by defendants citing this case and Terry v. Ohio.

Barry asked me to post this, as there seems to have been a question regarding the applicability of Terry v. Ohio to vehicles.

I am sure Barry, or one of his assoiciates will talk more on the issue at a later time.

Best Regards-
JH
ex cop and an instructor (laws for law enforcement officers)

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